Unproductive discussions…

Sometimes, I just can’t help myself. When I see a really offensive post on Facebook written by some clueless man (and it’s almost always a man), I leave a response. It usually turns into an unproductive discussion that leads to nowhere. I bow out politely, and the man almost always has to post a parting shot, which I decline to read.

This happened to me yesterday, when my friend Andrew posted a Trump quote dating from 2011.


Andrew lives in Texas and is a committed Christian. He has a few friends who are Trump supporters. One of his friends posted this comment.

One thing that is certain, if Trump didn’t act he would have been ridiculed by the Never Trumpers. Then if American lives were lost because nothing was done to prevent the 5 planned attacks Trump would have faced even more of a beating. You have to admit there is nothing that this president can do to get any positive feedback from the left. He could cure cancer, end all wars, and solve the worlds hunger issues forever and it wouldn’t change a thing. The Never Trumpers would still want him gone!! The facts are this political theatre we watch everyday is not controlled by the people who support evangelical Christian values. The media is controlled by big business monopolies who have back door dealings with our crooked politicians who play by a completely different set of rules than “we the people…” play by. They are inside traders in bed with foreign leaders and yes more back door dealings with oil, gas and tech companies,etc. They create crises after crisis as before they invented the crisis they invented the cure to rape and molest innocent, blind American people. Many of these people blindly support the perpetrators as they are blinded by the smooth talk and promise of a better life with things like so-called free college tuition or free health care. The insurance companies and big pharma are giving each other high fives as we blindly accept all the propaganda because we’re all to stupid to see we’re getting screwed!!

I frequently find myself frustrated by people who post this kind of stuff, painting the “Never Trumpers” with a broad brush. So I responded thusly…

Why do Trump supporters think I’m “blinded by smooth talk” simply because I don’t think an incompetent, narcissistic rapist should be living in the White House? It has nothing to do with his being “conservative”. He doesn’t care about anyone or anything but himself, and that is what makes him unsuitable.  

I don’t want free college tuition or free healthcare. I want someone in charge who is competent, decent, humane, and doesn’t hurt other people to gratify his wallet or his crotch. Is that too much to ask?

The man who posted the original comment didn’t respond to me until many hours later. I haven’t read his response, mainly because another guy chimed in and started an argument with me about Donald Trump. His tone put me off. It was very condescending and dismissive. He wanted to know who exactly Donald Trump has raped. So I provided him with an excellent article in The New Yorker, a well respected magazine that has been around for many years, detailing the case of just one of Trump’s victims, his first wife, Ivana.

Let me be frank. I’m not impressed with Ivana Trump. She later said that her own claims about being raped were “without merit”. However, the testimony from her divorce proceedings from Trump are pretty clear to me. He forced himself on her sexually in a fit of rage. It was confirmed by at least two of her friends. Her description of what happened certainly sounds like rape to me. If she didn’t want him prosecuted, I suppose that’s her business. But it obviously affected her enough that she spoke about it in a courtroom. I suspect that the story, both its introduction and its retraction, was mostly about money. Maybe if she was the only woman with such a story, I might be able to dismiss it as “without merit”. But she’s not the only one, is she?

Several months ago, I wrote a post wondering why Trump isn’t in prison. In that post, I included a video of a young woman named Katie J., who met Mr. Trump when she was 13 years old. Katie was, unfortunately, a young girl the same age and with features similar to Mr. Trump’s older daughter, Ivanka. Trump has, on more than one occasion, expressed his admiration for Ivanka’s looks. He’s even said that if she wasn’t his daughter, he’d be “dating her”. So Katie, who had met one of dead pervert Jeffrey Epstein’s “recruiters” in her quest to pursue modeling, wound up at an orgy hosted by Epstein. Trump was there, and according to Katie’s very credible account (IMHO, anyway), he “popped her cherry”. That was the expression the men involved wanted to use.

I’ve shared this before, but it bears repeating. This video was made in February 2016.

Now… start with the fact that Katie was only 13 years old. Legally, she was a child, and not able to consent to sex with Mr. Trump, even if it was something she genuinely wanted to do, which I am absolutely certain it wasn’t. Katie reported that the men told her she should grateful that she lost her virginity to Donald Trump instead of some pimply faced fourteen year old boy. When I think about what I was like at thirteen… hell, what it was like for me the first time I had sex as a fully grown woman with a lot of experiences under my belt… my heart breaks for Katie. She must have been terrified. It must have hurt like hell. I can’t begin to fathom how horrible it must have been for her, so I’m not going to try. I believe her story, though. I’d probably believe it even if Trump hadn’t, on more than one occasion, brazenly told everyone just who he is and what he thinks about women.

Andrew’s friend kept blowing me off and accusing me of reading fake news. He’s not impressed by The New Yorker. Katie and Ivana are just two women who have come forward, though. A whole lot of others have also been victimized by Trump’s criminal sexually predatory behavior. And Trump’s abysmal treatment of women is just one reason why I think he’s unsuitable to be the president, and why I keep writing about what an awful person he is. His obvious misogyny and narcissism alone should have disqualified him.

But there’s plenty of other stuff to write about… plenty of other reasons why Trump sucks as a human being, let alone a president. And no, I’m not against him because I embrace Bernie Sanders’ vision of what the United States should be. I’m not looking for free healthcare or free college, although I do think those two very necessary things should cost a whole lot less than they do in the United States. I simply want a leader who is rational, compassionate, humane, qualified, competent, and balanced. It’s not too much to ask. We don’t need an orange madman who tilts at windmills… or complains about them killing bald eagles.

I tried to explain this to Andrew’s friend, but he wouldn’t hear me. So I finally wrote this.

I’m really sorry you apparently have such a low opinion of women. I don’t think it’s productive to keep up this conversation. Good luck with your choices at the voting booth this year.

The guy came back with a response, which I chose not to read. I happened to catch the first couple of words, which were pretty obviously dismissive and sarcastic. And then the guy I originally responded to also tagged me in his comments, which I also chose not to read. I figured nothing useful would come of it. These men have made up their minds and aren’t interested in what a simple female like me thinks. They will be voting for Trump regardless of what he says or does. So it’s not productive to keep trying to talk to them. I won’t try anymore.

Andrew, to his credit, apologized to me privately for his friends’ comments. I don’t blame Andrew at all. I told him that I’m sure they have redeeming qualities to be friends of his. Andrew is a talented, intelligent, creative person who is an amazing writer and musician and I’m sure he’s a good judge of character. I have an idea of how he feels, too, because I also have loved ones and friends who refuse to see what’s in front of them and won’t listen to reason. It makes me sad. It would be one thing if these folks could just stop for a minute and even acknowledge why so many of us think Trump is a disaster without flatly dismissing us. But, I guess in fairness, I’m sort of guilty of the same thing. What can I say? I don’t like to give obvious misogynists the benefit of the doubt.


4 thoughts on “Unproductive discussions…

  1. Mary Beth Dooley says:

    Spot on Jenny! Trump makes me sick to my stomach, but his ardent supporters make me fear the future. When I read the comments if most of my friends and family I am in disbelief. They tout him as a fine man and devout Christian. Trump is the polar opposite. I am still astounded at what they allow him to get away with because they refuse to see him as anything other than the last great white hope. Trump represents the very worst of America. I am so deeply saddened and terrified of where his leadership is taking this country. He has stuck his middle finger at our Constitution and is destroying the very bedrock of our democracy. I can’t understand why his supporters don’t see the damage he is doing. It is mind boggling.

  2. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Jenny… I’m dismayed at the horrendous changes in people that were at least reasonable in their oppositions not too long ago

    • Thanks for understanding. I just don’t get people who doggedly support Trump and complain about how he’s being “bullied”, when he’s one of the worst offenders I’ve ever seen. And the evidence is strong that he’s victimized children…

Comments are closed.