It’s another beautiful May Sunday here in Germany. As I mentioned in my travel blog, I was hoping Bill and I could go do some really fun stuff this holiday weekend. But, thanks to a lack of planning and general laziness, together with raging allergic symptoms, we’ve kind of stuck close to home. It has been kind of a busy weekend in other ways, though. Bill and his daughter have been talking a lot, mainly because the youngest grandchild has just turned one year old.
We’ve been learning more about younger daughter’s college years and escape from Ex. Every time I hear more about what happened during that time period, I’m flabbergasted anew. I sense that younger daughter doesn’t want us to feel badly for her, nor does she consider herself a victim. I find that a very refreshing and admirable attitude to take. However, it still shocks me to hear about the challenges she faced during that time period. I do think a lot of her blessings came from being involved in her church, where people are encouraged to help each other. That’s one of a few things I do like about the LDS church. I especially find it funny that church people helped younger daughter so much, since Ex used the church as a parental alienation tool against Bill.
Anyway, as we were reacting to some of the revelations last night, I found myself trying to explain my reactions. I reiterated that I don’t think of younger daughter as a victim. I think she is incredibly resilient and resourceful. I just find it regrettable that it was more important for Ex to be hateful to Bill than do what was right for their daughters. Younger daughter didn’t have to go through what she did. Bill would have been so happy to help her. It would have been an honor for him to set her up for success at school. But Ex not only didn’t want to allow him to help their kids, she didn’t even want her kids to help themselves. I think she meant for her kids to all stay in her home, and those who try to flee the nest get punished.
It became clear as younger daughter was talking that Ex didn’t expect her kids to have ANY money of their own. At the time younger daughter was applying to school, Ex didn’t know that younger daughter had some money socked away, and she used it to pay the application fee for college and have her transcripts sent to her school of choice. She had just $80 of her own money— at age 18, no less. And she used it for higher education. Ex had not wanted her to go to school away from home and when she found out what younger daughter did, she got VERY angry with her. I think she was angry, not just because she’d applied to college (imagine being a mother upset about THAT), but because she’d secretly had the money in the first place!
I mentioned that I didn’t think Ex wanted her daughters to have money because money equals power. And, as I was talking, I explained… “Bill wanted very much to help you. He just didn’t want Ex to be part of it, because Ex always has to be part of the deal.” And then, before I knew it, I blurted out, “Your mom is a total psycho.”
And then I apologized… because “psycho” really isn’t the best word for what Ex is, at least not when I’m talking to Bill’s daughter. I didn’t want to offend younger daughter, either. But then it became pretty clear that she wasn’t offended by that comment.
I did explain at the end of our session that I am not the most politically correct person. I often speak my mind, sometimes out of turn. Often, I piss people off because I don’t tend to hold back on what I’m thinking, and sometimes I use language that would make a sailor blush. But… at least you know that what you get is what you see… as the great Tina Turner once sang.
Yeah… I am right there with you, Tina.
Once again, I am absolutely floored by how forgiving and kind younger daughter is. She doesn’t seem to have a drop of anger or bitterness in her. I’m sure it’s there somewhere, but I have yet to see it. I find that amazing… and very admirable. Maybe she has much to teach me. But anyway, she says that there are always people who have it worse. That’s true, but it doesn’t negate what she dealt with back in the day. She shouldn’t have had to struggle like that.
I’ll try to be a little more circumspect… or thoughtful about what I say. I suspect younger daughter’s husband, if he heard that comment, probably thought it was funny, though. I think he and I can commiserate about a lot of things. I don’t envy his position, when he has to deal with his mother-in-law. She is a challenge… or maybe she’s more like a trial. Whatever she is, one thing’s for certain. She is a psycho, and that is the truth.
Happy Mother’s Day, everybody. I know not everyone loves this holiday, but if you do celebrate Mother’s Day, I hope it’s a nice one for you. I don’t mind Mother’s Day much anymore. My mom and I get along pretty well, and I’ve come to terms that I’m a “mom” to dogs. I don’t really think of my dogs as my kids, although they are kind of my babies. At least I don’t have to send them to college. 😉
I’m kidding about the last part. I think I would have enjoyed sending an adult child to college, even though it costs so much. On the other hand, it’s nice to be debt free… and not having to pay for student loans anymore.
Younger daughter sent us a couple of videos. In one, she talked about how so many people her age are forgoing motherhood. It’s very obvious that she loves being a mom, and she’s very good at the job. I admire her patience and dedication to being there for her children. It’s more than she got from her own mom.
Something surreal happened the other day. I was sitting here looking through old blog posts and I found one in which I mentioned Heather B. Armstrong (nee Hamilton), author of the very popular blog Dooce, and a couple of books. I was never a regular reader of Dooce myself, but I knew about Heather because she was an ex Mormon and had grown up in Bartlett, Tennessee (near Memphis), which is where Bill’s dad lived for years before he passed. I think it might have even been May 9th when I looked at that post, not realizing that I would be getting shocking news about her that very day.
On May 9th, it was announced that 47 year old Heather Armstrong had died by her own hand. She reportedly suffered from depression and alcoholism, which was likely made worse by the toxicity of the Internet. Her writing had enchanted and delighted millions of people. She was even dubbed “Queen of the Mommy Bloggers”, because she was a Mommy Blogger before it was “cool”. At a time when blogs were mostly for people to trade among friends and family members, Heather Armstrong made it a place where anyone could have a voice. Dooce.com took off, and soon, scores of people were reading Armstrong’s thoughts on living, loving, marriage, and motherhood.
But Dooce.com had also excited mean spirited people who harassed her on a site called GOMI (Get Off My Internets), an “anti-fan” blog launched in 2008 by New York based blogger, Alice Wright. I had never heard of GOMI before I read about Heather Armstrong’s suicide, but apparently, a very special class of haters hang out there. They make a habit of reading blogs and trashing the writers.
Aside from garden variety clinical depression and alcoholism, Armstrong also had very severe postpartum depression after she had her older daughter in 2003. It was so bad that she needed to be hospitalized. In 2009, Armstrong published a very well-received book called It Sucked and then I Cried: How I Had a Baby, a Breakdown and a Much Needed Margarita. In spite of her experiences with postpartum depression, Armstrong had another daughter in 2010. Then she divorced her ex husband, Jon Armstrong. She was in another relationship with Pete Ashdown, a two-time Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate in Utah, at the time of her death.
Heather Armstrong had reportedly quit drinking for awhile before her death, but then relapsed into alcoholism. She continued to write, although her posts– which had been almost daily for years– became a lot less frequent. Some readers were unnerved by the content of her most recent posts, which revealed a downward spiral.
I think a lot of people were shocked and saddened by Armstrong’s suicide. Even though I wasn’t one of her fans, I had heard of Dooce, and realized its success was what a lot of bloggers strive for. Many aspiring writers looked up to Heather Armstrong as a role model, but I think other people just thought of her as a dependable friend. And now she’s gone, and people are left wondering what happened.
I read a few news articles about Heather Armstrong’s death. I was saddened to read that so many comments people left were either clueless or kind of mean. Heather Armstrong will never read those comments, but she was a mom, and her kids can read. Now, it’s Mother’s Day, and their mom is gone forever. For them, Mother’s Day may turn into a “day of infamy”. That’s a day in which a person remembers something awful every year.
Although Armstrong killed herself, I know that her action was caused by legitimate mental illnesses. Many people will say she was selfish to commit suicide, but those people might not understand that suicidal people are often not in their right minds. I write “often not” because sometimes people commit suicide for reasons other than depression. Clearly, in Armstrong’s case, her decision came as a result of deep, unrelenting psychological pain that wasn’t eased by medical treatment. Her death, while brought about by her own hand, was every bit as the result of an illness as a death due to a stroke, cancer, or heart disease is. It’s not like she didn’t try to get well, either. Heather’s depression was severe enough that she even underwent an experimental treatment involving being put into chemically induced comas for fifteen minute sessions. The treatment was supposed to mimic brain death, to see if it might cure extreme depression.
I have suffered from depression myself, and I know how it made me feel. There were times when I was tempted by suicide. But by the grace of God, I managed to resist those impulses. I doubt that my issues were ever as deep as Heather’s were… and although sometimes I get rude comments on my blog, I have never been harassed like she was. I don’t go looking for comments about me, or my blog, so if anyone is talking trash about me, I’m oblivious. But I suspect my blog is too boring for people on GOMI.
I was also never Mormon… and while I know that a lot of people find joy in Mormonism, I also know that a lot of people suffer despair because of it. Armstrong, who had once been a devout church member, left the religion, and reportedly suffered backlash from her family and friends. She poured her thoughts and feelings into her writing, and wound up being fired from her job in Los Angeles. At the time, it was probably awful for her… but then the blog took off, and she was soon earning millions from ad revenue, book sales, and product endorsements.
As a blogger myself, I wonder if maybe Dooce’s success was a source of terrible stress for Armstrong. I know that writing, for me, is kind of therapeutic. But when you become popular, you have to be much more careful about what you write. And when you make money from sponsors, you have to be even more careful, because businesses don’t want to be aligned with controversies or bad press. So then, that “therapy” kind of goes by the wayside, because as a writer, you can no longer be so free with what you express. I would imagine it also becomes harder to stay authentic and interesting.
My own blog used to be more popular. When I was writing it on Blogger and lived in Stuttgart, I shared it a lot more, and I had more readers. I eventually realized that I didn’t really want to be super popular, especially in a military community. Even years since I moved the blog to WordPress and kind of started over, I sometimes run into people who have never even read it, but had a negative opinion of it and me, just because of the name. I try to remember, though, that everyone who becomes popular has to deal with negative opinions and even haters. The most talented, likeable, and famous people in the world have haters.
Heather Armstrong obviously had mental health issues. Writing was a comfort for her… until it was used as a weapon. And now she has two daughters who no longer have their mother on Mother’s Day. I don’t blame Heather for what happened, because I know that the horrors of depression and alcoholism are real. But I do feel for her daughters, who have lost their mom forever. So, my thoughts are with them today, as I am reminded that for some people, Mother’s Day is difficult, at best. And for some, it really is a “day of infamy”.
Wherever Heather B. Armstrong is today, I hope she’s finally at peace. And I wish the most peace and comfort to her survivors, especially her daughters.
Good morning, y’all. I’m feeling pretty decent today, because last night, I made the final payment on our cruise. We got a big tax refund this year, so as soon as the charge hits my credit card, I’m going to be able to pay off the debt. Meanwhile, I think we’re pretty close to making the final plans for our big June vacation. I have a feeling it’s going to be an unforgettable trip, full of beauty, seafood, and new experiences.
I hadn’t wanted to go on a cruise. I was actually wanting to do more of a land trip. But, as Bill and I are both in our fifties, the days of us being willing to lug our stuff around to multiple destinations are pretty much over. The cruise I signed us up for last week was just too perfect, as it hit a lot of places we’d been wanting to visit again, or for the first time. Yes, it’s costing a bundle, but I think it’ll be well worth it. I’ve found that you have to enjoy these chances to travel when you can.
I’m not complaining, by the way. I feel very fortunate that we can go on a trip and pay for it in a reasonable amount of time. I’m grateful that Bill has a good job in a safe country that we both love. I’m especially glad I don’t currently live in a military stairwell apartment… and never have had to live in one. I know that, on the whole, I don’t enjoy apartment living. I also know that a lot of American military families who get moved abroad have to live on military installations. And that pretty much means living in an apartment for three years.
As anyone who has ever lived in an apartment can attest to, communal style living often means pitching in to keep the common areas clean. In Germany, this is a pretty normal thing. People who live in multi-family apartments take turns sweeping and mopping the stairwells, for instance. In the United States, a lot of apartment communities hire janitors to do that work. But, here in Germany– at least in the Stuttgart area– American residents of the military stairwells have been expected to do the job. That will change come May 1, when all residential buildings across the Stuttgart U.S. military garrison will have contracted stairwell cleaning.
You’d think this would be good news, right? I know if I were living in a stairwell apartment, I’d be all for it. In a perfect world, people would be cheerfully volunteering to give up some of their free time to keep common areas clean. However, we don’t live in a perfect world. Because people have varying levels of civic mindedness, keeping the stairwells clean simply doesn’t happen. What does happen is that the stairwells get cleaned by one or two responsible or “clean freak” families, they get cleaned in a half-assed manner, or they don’t get cleaned at all, and quickly become really gross.
Even though it seems clearly necessary to hire help to clean the common areas of the stairwells, some people aren’t very happy about this announcement. Below are a few negative comments and complaints people have made on Facebook about this development:
Respectfully, can we use this funding to make better parking complexes on Patch and Kelly instead? That is where the majority of the problems lie in my opinion.
If the announcement has been made, the money has already been spent. So no, they won’t be using that funding for anything other than cleaning the stairwells. The money wasn’t budgeted for parking. It was budgeted for housekeeping. Posting this comment on Facebook isn’t going to change anything regarding the stairwell cleaning decision. I would suggest finding the proper channel to formally make this request. Maybe in ten years or so, it will be acted upon.
Was it really that hard to get together as a community and keep the stairwells clean that we had to pay someone else to clean up after us?
Apparently, yes, it was. People work hard at their jobs. They have children to take care of. Free time is limited. Some people are messier than others are, and most people have their own standards of what is considered “clean”. Why complain that the garrison is finally taking action, while shaming everyone else in the community for not “coming together”? Have you, personally, done something to inspire other people to do their parts, as you’ve (hopefully) been doing yours? If you haven’t, you probably ought to take a look at yourself before pointing fingers.
I like the below response, as it sums things up nicely.
Have you seen the state of the stairwells/playgrounds/any common area on base? A couple responsible families across the garrison who do their part cleaning their little sections cannot compensate for the vast majority who do not. As frustrating as it is that funds have to be used for this purpose — because folks are not responsible enough to clean up after themselves — I wholeheartedly welcome it.
The bolded part especially highlights why this decision had to be made. Not everyone is willing or able to do their parts to keep the common areas safe, clean, and hygienic, and obviously those who don’t clean aren’t being sanctioned. So yes, funds need to be used for that purpose.
…smh what’s next someone that cleans after ppls dogs? House cleaning services? Lazyness should not be encouraged… But that’s just my opinion… Other things would be way more important.
I don’t think that forcing everyone to live in filth as a means of “discouraging laziness” is a good solution to this problem. Truly lazy people won’t notice or care, while those who aren’t “lazy” will suffer lower morale. It’s not fair that some people are willing to clean and others aren’t, especially when people who live in the stairwells are mostly being forced to live there. As to the rest of the comment regarding house cleaning or cleaning up after people’s dogs, don’t be ridiculous.
I’ve seen some nasty stairwells that I barely want to walk in
And others that are clean and decorated….. sad they have to pay someone but at least it’s gonna be clean for everyone.
Why is it “sad” that people will have jobs, and the necessary work will get done so that the stairwells aren’t so gross? I think this is a win/win. And I’ll bet those who are complaining about this aren’t going to keep cleaning out of principle, are they? If they ever did clean in the first place, that is…
Probably costly from a taxpayer’s point of view. However, we lived on Kelley. Keeping the stairwells clean was a constant battle. I think I would have been grateful for the upkeep.
Costly only in terms of money, which was earmarked for this purpose, anyway. In terms of health, morale, and safety, it’s a small price to pay.
How about a parking garage on each base?
Facebook isn’t the place to make this suggestion. The decision has been made and the money has been spent. Next!
Remember when we found human excrement in the basement Nick..that coupled with neighbours from hell! So happy we’re off base now!!!!
Yup! This scenario is EXACTLY why someone professional needs to be doing that job. It’s sad that fellow Americans behave in such a way, but as long as they do, someone should definitely be PAID to deal with that mess. No one should have to clean up another person’s dump, unless it’s parents cleaning up after their child or something…
Those of you reading this might wonder why I even care about this issue. I don’t live in a stairwell apartment, and I’m definitely not a neat freak myself. And, like some have pointed out, keeping the common areas clean is expected in our host country. If American military folks were living in apartments among Germans, it would be a no brainer that they’d be taking turns cleaning, especially in Swabia (Stuttgart). Or, barring that, they’d be paying someone to do the cleaning for them.
I think my interest in this subject comes from following RfM (www.exmormon.org) for so many years, and reading about what happened when church leaders decided to stop paying for janitorial services.
I have never been LDS myself, but Bill was a Mormon for awhile. And, for awhile, the church affected our marriage somewhat, as Bill’s daughters are members. I used to read RfM pretty compulsively, and one topic that frequently came up was how completely nasty and unhygienic church buildings became when the janitors were sacked. Church leaders had said that it was a form of service to the Lord (not to mention cheaper for the leadership) for members to clean the churches themselves. Even though the church is very demanding with lots of activities and “callings”, families were expected to give up their precious Saturdays and come in to clean the meetinghouses. Some people were very willing to do that and faithfully did their parts. Other people weren’t, and neglected to show up and pitch in. The end result frequently turned out to be gross buildings that weren’t very pleasant to visit on Sundays (and other days).
A church video about cleaning the chapels… Are people really this cheerful about using their free time to do work that could be done by someone who needs a job?
Consider that, just like a lot of military families, church families were busy and had lots of little ones to take care of. Consider that aside from working all week at a job, Saturdays were often full of chores that needed to be done in the home, as Sundays were for worship. Asking members to clean the church buildings means asking them to give up their free time to do a job that would be better done by someone who is paid to do it. Someone who is paid to do the cleaning is likely to do a better job; it will get done regularly; and, if they are church members, it means they can tithe. Of course, it also means that someone has a job and can also pay their own bills!
I will never understand why so many people, especially those who claim to be conservatives and bristle against people daring to be on the public dole, would lament about a paid job being created for someone who needs one. We want and expect people to work, don’t we? So why not pay them to do a job no one else wants to do? That way, they can chip in on taxes, right? It just seems like so many people harp on how everyone should work for a living, but then when a job is created, they complain about spending the money and lament about personal responsibility.
This issue doesn’t affect me personally, of course. It’s just puzzling to me that people would be up in arms about better janitorial services and grounds management. Who wants to spend their free time unpaid, cleaning up other people’s messes? Yes, we absolutely should all clean up after ourselves when we make messes. That’s the decent thing to do. But everybody has a different standard for what is considered “clean”, and some people either don’t have time to clean properly or just don’t care. And some people will feel compelled to clean, as they also resent the hell out of those who can’t be bothered to do routine cleaning. It’s better that people are paid to do that job.
Anyway… reading that thread reminds me of why I’m glad we live in Wiesbaden, and I never bothered to join a lot of Facebook groups up here. That’s another reason to be grateful.
I hope that people in Stuttgart will be grateful for their soon to be cleaner stairwell apartments… and if they were the ones actually doing their parts to keep the common areas clean, they’ll enjoy a little extra free time to spend with their families.
I’m having a terrible time coming up with a fresh topic today. I’m in the middle of reading a new book about the Kennedy family, and I just don’t have the stomach to cover what I’ve been reading about regarding politics. Every time I read a new headline about the Republican party, I feel more outraged. But I’ve already written so much about the current “hot button” issues, and I just don’t feel up to it today.
So, instead of writing something fresh, I’m going to repost this true crime piece I wrote October 19, 2018. It got a lot of hits on the original blog, so I know people were, at one time, interested in the case of Toni Fratto and Kody Cree Patten. I also remember that my take was a bit controversial with those in the know, so I will add the original comments.
If you choose to comment on this piece, please be civil, and please remember, most of it was written about five years ago. If it seems “wrong” or out of date, it may be because of that.
I was inspired by my recent reintroduction to Netflix yesterday and wound up spending a few hours binge watching a show called Deadly Women. I had seen it before, although the cases presented in the shows I watched yesterday were new to me. It always kind of amuses me that the narrators they use on shows about salacious crimes involving murder always sound like they’re oversexed or something. They also have “experts” who comment. One woman who is consistently featured on the shows has striking blue eyes and dark hair. She is a former FBI profiler. But she always sounds like she’s scandalized by some of the stories she analyzes.
So anyway, one of the episodes I watched involved a young Mormon woman from Nevada named Toni Fratto. Fratto’s religion wasn’t mentioned in the episode, but apparently, she was a very devout believer and Patten eventually converted to Mormonism so they could eventually marry in the temple. Patten even moved into Fratto’s family’s house after a particularly nasty fight with his father. Fratto’s family evidently felt they could help straighten out Patten and keep an eye on their daughter, who had informed them that she intended to marry Patten.
I found out about Fratto’s faith when I got curious and looked her up online. The British tabloid Daily Mail ran a story about Fratto’s sensational crime. In April 2012, Fratto and her boyfriend, Kody Cree Patten, were sentenced to prison for murdering Patten’s friend, 16 year old Micaela “Mickey” Costanzo. Fratto and Patten brutally murdered Costanzo on March 3, 2011.
A story about this tragic and horrifying case.
As I was watching this show about Fratto and Patten, I was reminded of a somewhat similar situation that occurred in the 1990s. In 1995, David Graham and Diane Zamora were a Texas high school power couple with plans to attend military service academies and embark on high powered military careers. But then the two of them decided to commit murder one night. They killed 16 year old Adrianne Jones because Diane was extremely jealous of the pretty teen. She thought Adrianne was a romantic rival, particularly since David had told Diane that he’d had sex with Adrianne. When Diane found out that her boyfriend had cheated, she became enraged and felt compelled to kill Adrianne. She asked David to carry out the task and sadly, he obliged.
Fratto’s case was somewhat similar, except she and Patten weren’t necessarily a “power couple” in the making. Patten was apparently a troublemaker, while Fratto had apparently led a fairly quiet life. On the show, she was described and portrayed as “homely”. Patten had grown up with Costanzo; she was one of his “buddies”. According to Deadly Women, Fratto had become irrationally jealous of Mickey Costanzo.
Wow… she sounds pretty out of touch with reality here.
Anderson Cooper talks to Toni Fratto.
What a terrible, tragic case…
Although Patten’s and Costanzo’s relationship had been platonic, Fratto was extremely insecure about the attention Patten paid to his friend, who was pretty, athletic, and described as “promising”. Mickey Costanzo also had a boyfriend, though Fratto was convinced that she was going to ruin her relationship with Patten. Despite Costanzo’s promises that she wasn’t interested in Patten romantically, Fratto refused to believe her, and continued to insult and threaten the girl. Fratto had repeatedly confronted Costanzo, telling her to “stay away” from her man, Kody Patten. Costanzo then decided she wanted nothing more to do with Patten, which apparently enraged him.
And yet, even though she was repeatedly harassing Costanzo about her friendship with Patten, Fratto had never been in trouble with the law. She had no criminal record when she and Patten kidnapped Costanzo, took her to the desert, beat her over the head with a shovel, and buried her in a shallow grave.
While Diane Zamora appears to have masterminded Adrianne Jones’ murder and David Graham had simply gone along with the idea, I think in this case, it was more Patten who got the idea to kill than Fratto. It appears that Patten got a charge out of playing on Fratto’s insecurities. He would deliberately set up situations that he knew would upset Fratto and cause her to react. Patten had a history of being a troublemaker, while Fratto was more of a “sheep”– this was actually how her attorney described her. Given what I know about Mormonism, I can see where that tendency would originate.
I even remember in 2014, watching BYU TV and hearing a Relief Society president giving a talk during that year’s spring General Conference. She was telling a disturbing anecdote about a farmer who had to train one of his ewes not to stray. The ewe would wander off from the herd by herself. So he tied the ewe to a stake until she learned not to stray. Then, once he freed her from the stake, the farmer had to coax her to move around again. The ewe had become submissive and compliant, and the Relief Society president’s message was that church members needed to be taught the same lesson.
With messages like that coming from a place of authority, I can see why Fratto might have been talked into helping her boyfriend commit murder. That’s not to say that I think all Mormons are “sheep”. It’s more to say that the religion does train people to be followers. I think in some cases, women are especially conditioned to follow the direction of their men, and that tendency can be exacerbated by untreated mental illness. Fratto apparently didn’t have a lot of experience with men and, for whatever reason, really thought she loved Patten. Later, she said that Patten had abused and controlled her throughout their relationship and she feared that if she didn’t help Patten kill Costanzo, she would be murdered herself. So instead of doing the right thing, she sat on Costanzo’s legs and helped hold her down while Patten slit the teen’s throat.
There could be some truth to Fratto’s story, although I also believe that Fratto was at least as dysfunctional and abusive as Patten. The fact that she could be talked into committing such an act of violence is a clue to her weakness of character. Would she have committed the murder on her own? I don’t know. But she was clearly lacking the moral fortitude to resist her own dark impulses.
To Fratto’s slim credit, she did eventually come forward to confess what she’d done. It was small comfort to Costanzo’s mother, who pleaded with the court to hand down a maximum sentence. Frankly, I can’t blame Mickey Costanzo’s mother for being so incredibly angry about the senseless and tragic murder of her child.
Fratto was eventually convicted of second-degree murder with a deadly weapon. She was sentenced to life in prison with the chance of parole after 18 years. Since she was 19 when she was convicted, it’s possible that Fratto could be out of prison before she turns 40. As of August 2018, Toni Fratto was in Florence McClure Women’s Correctional Center in Las Vegas, Nevada. Patten pleaded guilty to first degree murder and was sentenced to life without parole. He is at Ely State Prison in White Pine County, Nevada.
Edited to add in 2023: On April 4, 2021, Toni Fratto was denied parole. Her next chance to be paroled will be in May 2024. However, even if she had gotten parole in 2021, Fratto would still be locked up, as she has a second sentence that would begin for using a deadly weapon in the commission of second degree murder.
Listening to Toni Fratto on Anderson Cooper in the above clips, Toni Fratto sounds more to me like a psychopath. At the very least, she’s out of touch with reality, and the sheer horror of what she did. Listening to these interviews in 2023, I now believe that Toni Fratto was just as diabolical as Patten was. She is definitely where she belongs. How absolutely terrible it is that a beautiful and innocent young woman would lose her life due to these two criminals.
And here are the original comments:
5 comments:
AlexisAROctober 20, 2018 at 10:40 PM That Relief Society talk you described is beyond scary. A person would have to be virtually brain-dead even to read that talk from a teleprompter. Whoever wrote it is likely certifiable and should be locked up.
knottyOctober 20, 2018 at 10:57 PM I was horrified when I heard it.
Pcofwork January 21, 2019 at 5:32 AM I actually don’t agree with you. Toni and Kody had a history of aggressive behavior with Mickey. Toni initially confessed to being the one who slit her throat, I believe that the version she told to Kodys lawyer is close to the truth as we are ever going to get. Kody has shown remorse since he confessed to the police, all Toni has ever done is blame him. She didn’t even apologize to Mickey’s family. And she had more of a motive than he did.
knottyJanuary 22, 2019 at 5:03 PM Alright.
Chris Middleton February 6, 2019 at 3:01 AM Just a couple selfish, cold blooded pieces of shit! They took someone’s daughter! Hope they both rot in jail and then go straight to hell. I see she is eligible for parole in 2021, if she gets out, may people in their town take revenge on her cold Blooded ass!
A few days ago, I watched a very insightful YouTube video by licensed therapist Kati Morton. The video was titled “8 Signs Your Mom is a Narcissist”. I decided to watch Kati’s video, although I don’t think my mom is a narcissist. I really like her content. She’s warm and empathetic, and she offers insightful and factual information in an appealing way.
The red flags were at full mast on this…
I don’t think my mom is a narcissist. She probably has some narcissistic tendencies, as most of us do. She might even have more than the average person does. But when it comes down to it, my mom does have basic empathy, and in spite of certain accusations made by others in my family, I think my mom has basic respect for her daughters. Especially now that we’re all adults. Or, at least I think she has basic respect for me. She changed a lot (for the better, in my opinion), when my father died.
I probably would have liked Kati Morton’s video regardless. Her content is kind of in my wheelhouse, because I studied social work, and might have even become a therapist myself. But then again, maybe I wouldn’t. Sometimes, I wonder if I have basic insight about myself. It’s probably a side effect of growing up the way I did… in a family situation that looked good, but hid some pretty serious issues like depression, alcoholism, and post traumatic stress disorder. Most of that stuff didn’t get talked about until we were all pretty much grown and seeing shrinks. 😉
As regular readers of my blog know, I strongly suspect Bill’s ex wife is a bonafide narcissist. I don’t mean she has “narcissistic tendencies”. I mean I think she’s got full blown NPD. Of course, I don’t know for sure, and I probably never will. The only way I could be sure is if a licensed professional diagnosed her and it was somehow made public. But I do have my suspicions, just as I have my suspicions about Donald Trump.
I used to suspect narcissism in Ex when Bill told me about his marriage to her, especially as I helped him deal with the aftermath of it. I became more certain when I heard about some of the things that happened after she and Bill divorced. Then, after watching Kati’s interesting video about narcissistic mothers, as well as reading other insightful materials, the signs became even clearer.
I highly recommend watching Kati Morton’s video, because she does a great job explaining the signs. She even mentions former child actress turned author Jennette McCurdy and her book, I’m Glad My Mom Died, which I’ve also read and reviewed. Jennette McCurdy’s mom was a notorious narcissist. But, if you don’t want to take the time to watch Kati’s video, here’s a quick and dirty list…
You are an extension of her. She lives vicariously through you, or wants you to participate in activities that she chooses, even if you’re not interested in them. She sees you as “property”– and has an “I brought you in this world, I can take you out” attitude.
She can dish out tons of criticism but can’t take any of it herself. She’s never satisfied with your achievements and criticizes you heavily when you don’t perform. But if you criticize her in any way whatsoever, there will be HELL to pay.
She shares private information about you without your permission. She tells her friends about your first period, for instance. Or she talks to other people about things that are equally embarrassing.
She holds basic parental duties over your head. The old “Do you know how many diapers I had to change when you were a baby?” or “Have you any clue how annoying your crying was when you were a toddler?” (actually, I have heard this a lot from my family)
She doesn’t respect boundaries. She calls you when you’re on your honeymoon… 😉
Will constantly tell you you’re remembering things wrong. Classic gaslighting behavior. She’ll say things like “That never happened.” or “You’re crazy. That’s not what I said or did.”
She is always competing with you. (another one I experienced, but from my dad) A narcissistic mom might try to steal your friends or your significant others. She might dress too young. Maybe she’ll resent your successes.
It will NEVER be her fault! Anytime there is a problem, it’s someone else’s fault. She won’t take any responsibility for her part in any bad situation. And if something goes well, it will be because of her input.
I’ve been watching Ex for over twenty years. For most of that time, what I learned about her, I learned against my will. I heard about her from Bill or someone else in his family. Most of what I heard was very upsetting, so I made a point of not looking her up on the Internet. I didn’t want her to disturb my peace, nor did I want to feel compelled to call CPS. But then, I found out that she was telling her kids about my blog and spinning it into bullshit. Since they were adults at that point, I figured if she was going to read up on me, I might as well return the favor and give her some of the attention she obviously craves.
Now, I’m (mostly) not as disturbed or horrified by Ex’s antics. Bill’s daughters (biological, at least– we still wonder if #3 legally adopted them) are adults, and are responsible for themselves. Younger daughter has made the leap into full fledged adulthood. Older daughter, sadly, hasn’t. But she’s got to figure things out for herself. Now, I can (mostly) just laugh at Ex.
And laugh is exactly what I did last night, when I saw her latest tweet. Someone in her “Outlander posse” shared pictures of a very personal and thoughtful gift she had received by another fan. The woman who shared photos of the present was gushing over how beautiful it was. The woman’s friend (who evidently isn’t a friend of Ex’s) had sent her a creation based on their mutual love of the Outlander series. I can’t tell for sure, but it looks like this person actually created a hardbound book based on tales told by James Fraser, a character on the show. I don’t watch Outlander myself, but I did do a quick search and it looks like this was a one off creation; not something she bought on Amazon.
If the person did create the book, she did a beautiful job. I would be thrilled to receive such a lovely gift. I can understand why the recipient is so impressed with it. Now that I’m reading other comments, I can see that it was something specially created. People are effusive with their praises.
Apparently, Ex is impressed (and envious), too. She left the following comment:
I’m sure she adores it. Did you craft the book from scratch my dear? It’s the most beautiful gift I’ve ever seen. I have to confess, all the gifts I receive are from myself; since my father died, I can count on my fingers the gifts ANYONE else has given me. Is it an odd thing?
Notice how she states the obvious. “I’m sure she adores it.” (clearly). She asks if it was created from scratch, adding “my dear”, which is almost always a condescending sentiment rather than endearing. Then… she writes it’s the “most beautiful gift [she’s] ever seen”. I’ve seen her write that before, so it’s obviously not a sincere comment.
Finally… she makes the rest of the comment about herself.
Ex’s father– her adoptive father that she met for the first time when she was 7 years old– died in 1996. According to Bill, who actually knew him, he wasn’t a terrible person, but he also wasn’t much of a father. He spent a lot of his time at sea, because he was in the Merchant Marines. When he died, he did leave some money for Ex’s three eldest children– about $15,000 total. Ex proceeded to use the money to put a down payment on the house that she later allowed to go into foreclosure.
I know that Bill’s father and stepmother gave her gifts, some of which were pretty expensive. I also know that she later sold them on eBay. I don’t know what kinds of gifts Bill gave her when they were married, although I doubt he had much money to buy her anything super nice. And even if he did, she probably wouldn’t have liked or appreciated it. From what I’ve heard and seen in the aftermath of their marriage, I know that Bill was more concerned about paying the light bill and mortgage, than gifting Ex things like fan books from her favorite TV shows.
Bill “gifted” her with two daughters and played “daddy” to her eldest kid with her first husband. When they divorced, instead of insisting that her first ex husband pay child support for his son, Bill paid support for him, too. But Ex doesn’t see that as a kindness. At the time, she felt entitled to it. He left their marriage no longer able to father children, because he had a vasectomy for their mutual benefit. She repaid him by having two more kids with #3, and now uses them to promote her benevolent mother facade to strangers on Twitter. Meanwhile, we’ve heard about how she begrudged younger daughter necessary medical and dental interventions, even forcing her to endure a complicated dental procedure unsedated when she was seven years old.
I would have been overjoyed to have had a child with Bill. I would have seen that as the greatest gift ever. Isn’t it interesting that Ex doesn’t appreciate her children, or see them as gifts– even if they were simply from God? I bring up God because Ex brought the family into Mormonism, where there’s the idea that preborn children choose their families as spirits waiting for earthly bodies. But for all I know, she might not even believe in God anymore. Or maybe she only believes in God when it’s convenient.
Ex recently tweeted something else that gave me pause. In parts passing, I’ve written about how Ex loves to use books, music, movies, and television shows to “demonstrate” how she expects her husbands and children to behave. She doesn’t live in reality. She bases her reality on fiction. Bill has told me many times that she expected him to romance her, as Bryan Adams suggested in the song “To Really Love A Woman”, or suggested that he wasn’t “strong enough” to be her man, as Sheryl Crow sang in her song, “Strong Enough”. There are countless other examples of this phenomenon.
Anyway, she recently tweeted about the show, Outlander, of which she is a super fan. Someone announced that the show could be “rewatched” starting in early April, allowing fans to see the whole thing before the new season starts. Ex posted:
Thanks for the heads up!!! I’m a woman on a mission to get my hubby to watch it straight through!!
Poor #3… I doubt she wants him to watch because she simply enjoys the show. She probably wants him to watch so she can “instruct” him on the “right” way to behave. She wants to be married to James Fraser, not #3. She wants actors, not real people. Hell, even her children have mostly taken acting classes… probably because she encouraged it or insisted that they take the classes. She doesn’t want them to be themselves. She wants them to be someone from one of her shows or movies.
If you look at the list above, you can see that it’s basically Ex engaging in the very first sign. She constantly posts about wanting her youngest daughter to go to an acting conservatory in Scotland… when younger daughter has said that her sister would actually prefer to go to school close to home, so she can hang out with her friends. Meanwhile, when younger daughter was college bound, Ex wanted her to stay close to home and commute to her classes. Younger daughter, thankfully, found a way to do what she wanted to do.
Anyway… back to Kati Morton. I find her videos very helpful and interesting, not just because of Ex, but because of my own fucked up family dynamics. The below video is one that kind of resonates with me, personally.
I love my mom… but she was kind of neglectful.
Standard
Loading Comments...
By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies. more information
The cookie settings on this website are set to "allow cookies" to give you the best browsing experience possible. If you continue to use this website without changing your cookie settings or you click "Accept" below then you are consenting to this.
at least it’s gonna be clean for everyone.
AlexisAROctober 20, 2018 at 10:40 PM That Relief Society talk you described is beyond scary. A person would have to be virtually brain-dead even to read that talk from a teleprompter. Whoever wrote it is likely certifiable and should be locked up.
knottyOctober 20, 2018 at 10:57 PM I was horrified when I heard it.
Pcofwork January 21, 2019 at 5:32 AM I actually don’t agree with you. Toni and Kody had a history of aggressive behavior with Mickey. Toni initially confessed to being the one who slit her throat, I believe that the version she told to Kodys lawyer is close to the truth as we are ever going to get. Kody has shown remorse since he confessed to the police, all Toni has ever done is blame him. She didn’t even apologize to Mickey’s family. And she had more of a motive than he did.
