communication, history, musings, racism, Virginia

An offline discussion reminds me of why I prefer hanging out with my dog…

Sometimes, I truly miss having discussions with people offline. And sometimes, I’m reminded that certain people can be frustrating to deal with in person. As I wrote in my travel blog this morning, Bill and I went to the Wiesbaden wine week festival last night. We met up with some of his co-workers, most of whom were very nice and good conversationalists. This isn’t to say that talking was an easy task, given how loud it was at the fest. There were a lot of people there; most of them were drinking wine and probably getting drunk. There was also loud music.

Before things got too loud, I met one of Bill’s colleagues. He attended Virginia Military Institute, which is the same college my father, uncle, and several cousins attended. I also have several relatives who worked there for many years. Bill and I got married there in 2002.

It’s actually funny this topic is coming up today, since almost exactly a year ago, I got into a contentious online discussion with some Washington Post readers about that school, which spawned a pretty good blog post (in my opinion, anyway). I’m mostly a VMI booster, although I understand why some people don’t like the school and think it should be shut down. There are big problems with racism and sexism there, at least historically. It probably continues today, although the school does put out some pretty excellent military officers. My dad was one of them.

If you know anything about VMI, you know that it’s a very southern school, and people there are very proud of the fact that VMI cadets were involved with the Civil War. The VMI Corps of Cadets fought as a unit at the Battle of New Market in Virginia. General Thomas Jonathan “Stonewall” Jackson is a hero at the school, and for most of the college’s existence, cadets were obligated to salute a statue of the man. The statue, which was one of several commemorations of Jackson, was removed and relocated in 2021.

If you know anything about Virginia, you might know that until just a couple of years ago, there were many public Confederate monuments and memorials there, especially in the state capital city of Richmond. A lot of people were very upset that the statues were removed, although probably just as many were either indifferent or ecstatic to see them go. They were a reminder of dark times of the past, when Virginia allowed White people to enslave Black people.

Bill’s co-worker happened to mention, casually, that he didn’t think it was right for the statues, monuments, and memorials to come down. He said they were part of history, and removing the statues was akin to “erasing history.” I was probably visibly shocked when I heard him say that, but somehow, I managed to keep my mouth closed.

The guy continued that his family comes from Cuba, and to them, when the government starts renaming streets and taking down statues and such, it means communism is coming. I guess I can understand that reasoning. I’ve heard it from other descendants of people who have escaped communism.

On the other hand, a couple of months ago, when we visited Estonia and Latvia, I heard two different guides talk about how glad the Estonians and Latvians were to get rid of communism. When I lived in Armenia, I didn’t hear as many people praising the fall of communism, probably because life for them was so difficult in the early to mid 1990s. I’m sure many Armenians at that time would have preferred that the Soviet Union stayed intact, because the Soviet style of government was what most of them were used to, and life was easier when they were more closely aligned with Moscow.

In any case… even back in the mid to late 1990s, Armenia started divorcing itself from Russia. That meant that the street signs, most of which were in Russian and Armenian when I arrived in 1995, were changed to just Armenian. City names that celebrated Lenin and Stalin were changed back to Armenian names. The Russian rouble stopped being the official currency; Armenian drams were used, complete with pictures of Armenian leaders. Armenians started to sing the Armenian national anthem instead of the Soviet one. There used to be schools that specialized in Russian, and there may still be some now, but there are just as many schools that specialize in English. I taught at an English specialty school. There were many changes made, all of which were essential for the country to move forward.

When I was in Latvia and Estonia in June of this year, I heard about the same things happening in those countries. When the Soviet Union fell apart, and communism was no longer the style of government in those countries, things changed. Statues celebrating Soviet history and heroes were taken down, and people stopped learning and speaking so much Russian… and guess what? Street names also changed! In those cases, the name changes and removal of statues and monuments were due to communism going away!

I suppose I was a little flabbergasted that this guy– a retired high ranking military officer who now works with Bill– thinks that removing Confederate monuments and memorials is akin to promoting communism and “erasing history”. Talk about unskilled thinking. I wasn’t impressed at all.

Bill said that when the guy started talking about how awful it was that the monuments were taken down, I visibly stiffened. He said it was subtle, but noticeable to him. Bill knows me very well and pays attention to my body language. As I mentioned in yesterday’s post, a lot of communication is done non-verbally. I didn’t say a word to the guy about his thoughts on the Confederate monuments, but apparently my body was saying a lot. I don’t know if he noticed my unspoken comments. I’m kind of gratified that Bill noticed.

Count me among those who think taking down the monuments is a positive thing. It marks progress in promoting equality, mutual respect, and racial sensitivity. The monuments don’t really mean much to me, personally. I never would have thought to launch a campaign to have them taken down. I always had them in my community when I lived in parts of Virginia, so they’ve always been part of the environment I’m used to seeing. But I’m caucasian, and have never had a reason to feel offended by the monuments, other than having empathy for those who do find them offensive. I’m sure the descendants of slaves have a very different opinion than those who think the monuments are part of history that should be publicly preserved.

Given that in the United States, we are all supposed to be equal members of society, Black people’s opinions and preferences certainly matter. And if removing the monuments promotes peace, mutual respect, and racial harmony, I’m all for it. We sure could use more solidarity, especially in today’s polarized society. It hurts no one to remove the monuments, as the people who have been memorialized are long gone, and the cause they were promoting and defending failed after just four years.

Why publicly celebrate people who were ultimately traitors? It surprises me that this high ranking retired officer, a man who obviously has basic intelligence, doesn’t ask himself that question… but then, maybe I shouldn’t be surprised. I know from knowing my dad, and the many other VMI grads in my family, that going to VMI is kind of like joining a cult and becoming indoctrinated into the school’s ways. And when you’re in a cult, your mind isn’t 100 percent your own.

I still appreciate VMI. It’s part of my own history, even though I didn’t go to college there. But after talking to that guy last night, I realized that an education there has its shortcomings. And given that until very recently, cadets were obliged to salute a statue of Stonewall Jackson every time they passed it, I’m pretty sure that graduating from VMI is, at least in part, behind this guy’s opinion that removing Confederate monuments– that were erected during the Jim Crow era to keep Black people in their places– is akin to “erasing history”.

How disappointing. Guess I should go back to conversing online. Well… at least Noyzi is a good listener.

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history, politics, racism, social media, YouTube

“Let’s compare swords…” Watching ridiculous arguments on social media…

Salutations, y’all. Today’s post comes courtesy of the Exploring Virginia Facebook group, a group that is supposed to be about celebrating the beautiful state of Virginia, but often ends up with people arguing politics among themselves. I guess it makes some sense, since Virginia used to be a staunch red state, but it’s now turned purple, as more people from the North move to the South.

I know there are a lot of people out there who don’t think of Virginia as a southern state. Those people are just plain wrong. In fact, Virginia is not just a southern state. It’s where the Confederacy was based for the longest period of time. Spend some time south of Northern Virginia, and you will soon see why it’s a southern state. Lots of people in Virginia are still very staunch Republicans, and many of them are still very proud of their southern roots. And, some of those people are still fighting the Civil War, which supposedly ended on April 9, 1865.

Virginia boasts a lot of Civil War sites. Lots of people come to Virginia to see those sites. Some even go there to do Civil War reenactments. George Carlin famously quipped about how some people still enjoy fighting a war that ended so long ago. See below…

“Use live ammunition, assholes, would you, please?”

George Carlin really was a genius. But, I digress. Also, I wouldn’t want to encourage more people to use live ammunition in the United States. All too many people are quite willing to open fire on their neighbors.

In any case, this morning, I came upon someone’s post about the Civil War Graffiti House near Culpeper, Virginia. Someone happened to visit there recently, and decided to share their photos with the group. Lots of people who fought in the Civil War on either side of the issue covered the house’s walls with graffiti. That’s cool, right?

Well, naturally, that post sparked controversy. Behold…

Here it comes…

Now, I was born and raised in Virginia, so I’ve been hearing the southern version of events for most of my life. Many southerners insist that the Civil War was 100 percent about states’ rights. And today, in 2023, if anyone in their presence dares to say it was about slavery, they suddenly become “Civil War scholars” /sarcasm, and it turns into a hostile argument. Check this out…

This was a conversation between three men. Notice how one of them becomes very condescending as he writes that one of the other guys “learned very little in school.”

I don’t actually remember learning a lot in school about the Civil War. Granted, it was a long time ago. But I went to a public Virginia high school in the mid to late 1980s, and back then, there wasn’t as much political correctness as there is now. My guess is that I learned the state approved version of events regarding the Civil War. I did have a very good teacher. His name was Mr. Zuger. He also taught my older sister, who is eight years my senior. Mr. Zuger is a UVa graduate. He probably knows his stuff. *shrug* He also used to eat chalk.

I do remember there were a lot of things we had to cover in history class, so I doubt we spent a whole lot of time poring over historic documents or having in depth discussions about what the Civil War was really about. I doubt it would have gone over well, though, if a teacher told students that it was about slavery. Where I went to school, there are many proud southerners who are very rigid in what they think and believe. In those days, quite of a lot of them were comfortable openly displaying Confederate battle flags. They saw nothing wrong with it. To them, it was a symbol of “southern pride”. While I admit I don’t know for sure, my guess is that where a person went to school has/had a lot to do with what historical perspectives regarding issues like the Civil War are taught. I would imagine it’s taught differently in Alabama or Georgia versus, say, California or Vermont.

I didn’t take any history classes in college, beyond Western Civilization. But– as an English major, I was exposed to a number of historic works in literature, and there I did have occasion to read slave narratives, poetry, novels, and other works that were either written during the Civil War era, or were by Black authors. So, although I didn’t read much about official 19th century era state government policies, I was exposed to the stories passed down by actual slaves. And having had that experience, I can’t help but not give a flying crap about why the Civil War was fought. I care about the end result, which was that slavery was officially abolished, and it became illegal for U.S. citizens to buy, sell, and own other human beings and treat them like livestock. Granted, officially ending slavery did not fix everything for Black people, but it was an important start. And that, to me, is what is most important.

But not everyone is like me, as I continually find out on a daily basis. Because these guys continued to compare swords. Have a look.

This comment is from the same guy. He addresses two other men. One is on his side; the other is in opposition.

Notice how the dude in the above comment addresses his opponent as “sir”, but does so in a belittling way. He doesn’t really think of the other guy as a “sir”. He’s not being respectful. He’s being a bit patronizing, as he lectures the guy who disagrees with him about the cause of the Civil War. I’m not sure why it’s so important to him to insist that people up north didn’t care about slavery, or that Democrats circa the Civil War era wanted to maintain slavery. Clearly the version of the Democrat Party that existed back then does not exist today.

I’m not saying the Democrats are perfect. They definitely have their problems. And I’m not saying that Republicans don’t have cause to be irritated by far left thinkers. I find some of what they say and do rather insufferable, too. But it’s pretty clear that in 2023, Democrats are more interested in promoting and maintaining human rights and fairness to everyone. Republicans are focused on maintaining cheap labor, low taxes, and white male supremacy. And they champion leaders who are nothing like Christ, even though they claim to care about Christian values.

Jeez… everything has to turn into a political argument!

Personally, I think a lot of “Civil War buffs”, who are obsessed with proving that the Civil War wasn’t about slavery, are really just a bunch of white guys who want to divorce themselves from the reality of what slavery actually is. They bring up economics, and the fact that in the South, there were vast plantations where cotton was grown. It was a labor intensive job to grow and pick cotton, and the plant thrived in the South. But we didn’t have the modern machines back then that we have today, so a lot of manpower was needed in order to be able to send the cotton up North, where it could be turned into textiles, which were then sold for money.

The way they phrase it, the southerners were team players, doing a solid by growing cotton for the United States, and slaves were a necessary part of the plan, because no one was immigrating to the South. Because they needed the labor, and no “white” people who could be paid were moving down there, they had to enslave black people to get the job done. Or, at least that’s what one of the above commenters wrote. The way he frames it, those liberal northerners were trying to use the government to take over and turn their plantations into government owned communist paradises, and if only more white people had moved down South, they could have had well-paying jobs!

Now… I wish to reiterate, I don’t actually agree with that take on things. One commenter writes that “slavery was on its way out” and slave owners were letting their slaves go. But as I sit here and think about it, I wonder… Was this really a situation in which wealthy white men with FREE labor and access to female enslaved people for sex were suddenly having an attack of consciousness and saying, “Gee. I’ve owned these people for long enough. It’s time I did the right thing and let them go so they can pursue their own interests.”? That doesn’t seem very realistic to me.

Seems to me that even if some people were actually doing that– having a change of heart and turning their slaves loose– that wouldn’t stop other people from recapturing freed enslaved people and forcing them back into slavery. So even if a former slave owner decided to be decent and stop enslaving people, the people they freed would still be in great danger. Because, clearly, not everyone felt that way about ending slavery. Greedy people still abound today, and we still have many business leaders who, if they could get away with it, would continue to pay as little as possible and offer no benefits to workers so that the business owners and stockholders can get richer. Meanwhile, the working poor who don’t have enough money, even though they work three part time jobs with no benefits, are told they should stop complaining, and simply “work harder” or get another job.

When I think about the Civil War era and slavery, I do feel emotional. I think about what it must have been like for the Africans who were kidnapped and forced in chains on a boat, taken across the Atlantic Ocean in deplorable conditions, and then required to work very hard on plantations, while living like livestock. I think about women who were used for sex and forced to give birth in chains, then separated from their babies, as they were forced to be “wet nurses” for wealthy white women. I think about enslaved mothers watching their children being sold.

My guess is that the Confederate fans don’t like to think about those things. They’re focused on money, much like the people today who will happily champion a criminal like Donald Trump so they can have $1.89 gas again. They don’t want to talk about what that would mean for the people who aren’t courted by Trump… which, really, includes all of us. Donald Trump doesn’t care about anyone but himself. Whatever promises he makes are made only to score votes.

Otherwise “decent people” who admire Trump don’t want to think about what happens when the focus is only on money and commerce. They overlook the concept of greed, and the sins that many people will commit in the name of being greedy. When there’s the prospect of wealth and power on the table, some people find it easy to ignore the pain and humiliation suffered by people who are less wealthy and powerful. They don’t have time to think about how they might feel if it were them wearing the chains, being brutally whipped for some transgression, after performing twelve hours of backbreaking labor in the hot sun. And this, all because they have dark skin and were born somewhere far away, with different cultures, mores, and customs…

Granted, the United States is not the only place where slavery has ever existed. In fact, slavery continues in some places even today… even within the United States, actually. But to continually argue with strangers about what caused the Civil War is, to my mind, a ridiculous waste of time. To me, the main point is that the Civil War officially ended slavery, and the U.S. government slowly started recognizing people of color as human beings, worthy of basic human rights. Certain white people have been pissed off about that ever since. Some of them continue to try to make themselves feel better by not thinking about the actual horrors of slavery, and empathizing with how they might have felt if it had been them in chains. They just want to minimize the horrors by talking about economics and arguing about what events caused the Civil War.

The stupidity is breathtaking.

Well… part of me wonders if I should stop following the Exploring Virginia page. It seems like so many posts turn political, and then they quickly become insulting. But, I can’t deny that those posts do offer some food for thought.

If you have the time and inclination, I highly recommend watching the brilliant actress, Azie Dungey, on the YouTube series, Ask A Slave (produced by Jordan Black). It’s very interesting and entertaining, and the episodes are based on ACTUAL questions she fielded when she was a living history character at Mount Vernon. Below is one of several videos she made.

Classic… I grew up near Williamsburg, Virginia, and I got to know a lot of historic interpreters working at Colonial Williamsburg. They often encountered tourists with dumb comments like these… and a lot of them tried to play “stump the chump”.

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